 | Sean D As I assume there's no mechanism for applying a handicap pre game I'm guessing it going to be a manual calculation to adjust the score at the end of a normal game? |
 | Andy Platt Yeah, example, your rating right now is 1389. Taking another largely at random, Tom Rowell is 1683. Let's say the game ends 104-94 to Tom, I'd record the score as actually being 106-104 to you, because the handicap formula means you just have to score within 12. |
| Andy Platt One thing I also hadn't really considered were situations where the handicap score would force a tie. Probably best to sort this out in advance because it will probably happen at some stage. Let's say that a tie is fine in the group stages, but in the knockout section then the lower rated player will advance. |
| Sean D One minor snag I suppose is if the handicap is a whole number you could end up with a tie on handicap which won't be resolved in-game, but a single conundrum game could sort that. Handicap balance looks ok, perhaps a little small when there's 100-200 between players (but if you're not happy to take on someone 200 rating points ahead of you with little or no handicap then tournaments probably aren't for you!) |
| Sean D Simultaneous posts here on the subject of ties! |
| Andy Platt Haha yeah. Also to clarify, if ratings are within 50 and it's tied after 15 rounds, then let's just let the tie break conundrum resolve the game. |
| Andy Platt (Otherwise it's the score after 15 that counts) |
 | Nadroj Rekrab COME ON NADROJ LETS GO |
| Andy Platt 28 in, if we can't hit 32 I might consider some bots (Rex might be the most fun!) or some highest scoring 3rd places going out. |
| Andy Platt going through. |
| Andy Platt neunundzwanzig |
| Andy Platt 30 |
 | George Ford aren't there 30 |
| George Ford wow your comment showed up late |
| George Ford this is awkward |
| Andy Platt Well we hit 32! Draw incoming! Anyone else that applies will be a reserve. |
| Andy Platt Here is a display of the group stages, draw, results, etc etc, that I'll update after every few fixtures.
|
 | Callum Todd Group G = group of death. |
| Andy Platt There were some sandbagging concerns expressed lastnight so we'll use the ratings in that table for the entire group stage, then reassess them at the start of the knockout phase. |
 | Zarte Siempre I've just been working mine out, and worked out my margins as 7, 35 and 46. Can you please confirm? :) |
| Andy Platt Correctus |
 | Alex Fish As the ratings are constantly moving, I assume we work out the difference based on the ratings just before the game? |
| Zarte Siempre "There were some sandbagging concerns expressed lastnight so we'll use the ratings in that table for the entire group stage, then reassess them at the start of the knockout phase." |
| Andy Platt Nah, we'll fix the ratings as they were around midnight last night when we did the draw. This is recorded in the linked picture file. But I'll look at them at the end of the group stage to see where we are with them. |
| Alex Fish fair enough, I as thinking about that issue |
 | Gerry Tynan I like the idea of this format. If the handicaps work out it might work well as a variant. It would mean that you could get a competitive match against most of the apterous population rather than those within 400 points either side fo you. |
| Sean D Cool. Lol at Group G :) Looks like my group is tight with Matthew giving 4, 12 and 13 to me Kieran and Jason, me giving 5 and 6 to Kieran and Jason and Kieran and Jason playing off scratch. If I've done my sums right. |
| Andy Platt Yep, just about to upload a file that makes it clearer for everyone, and that matches up exactly with what I have for your group. |
| Andy Platt OK try this bad boy.
|
| George Ford not coming up whAT |
| Andy Platt I can view it even when logged out, so it should work for everyone. |
| Callum Todd works for me. good stuff. |
| Alex Fish thanks Andy, looks good |
| Andy Platt Updated https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByvrSuLzbxrSZUQzak1sSVFlQVU/edit?usp=sharing |
| Andy Platt Daily update is in. 25 of the 48 group stage games are now complete, including all of the Group G games - congrats to Callum and James for qualifying from their "group of death". James Roper goes on to play James Bailes in the first confirmed match of the knockout stage. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByvrSuLzbxrSalJ3MmRqTE9fNUU/edit |
| Andy Platt Just noticed a minor error in my adding, if anyone can tell me what it is, they can have £1000 in monopoly money. |
 | Jason Turner Do I need to have any specific software to be able to see the tables? I just opens blank for me. |
| Jason Turner Then it works!! d'oh ignore last comment. |
| George Ford same happened to me Jason haha |
| Andy Platt Updated. Congrats to Ian and Jamie who qualified from Group D. Still 16 games to go in the group stage, the majority of which rely on the absence of three players, so I'll aptomail them shortly.
|
| Andy Platt Only ten games to go now, will update the spreadsheet soon. Seems to be one group holdinG us back a little bit - pRObably Unfair to name & shame that Particular Bunch, but I'm sure the games will get played soon :) |
 | Graham Harrison You can see them in white lol :) |
| Andy Platt go back and re-read the capitals |
| Andy Platt Updated. Groups D, E, G and H are now completed, well done to everyone who has qualified. Just to point out that Johnny C qualifies ahead of Tom R due to their head to head record. Also the destiny of Group F comes down to the Cappleman-Bradley showdown so that will be interesting to keep track of.
|
| Andy Platt Did a new update already, due to the fact there's been three new qualifiers this evening. Well done to David, Sean and Alex. David has also secured top spot in Group A. Just 6 games to go and three qualifying spots to play for. Exciting stuff.
|
| Andy Platt Marcus should have 6 points. Good spot |
| Andy Platt Hell of a lot of progress made in the last 10 days, well done guys. Only 5 games to go in the group stage! There is a generous deadline in place but it'd be pretty cool if we can get onto the more exciting knockout stage as soon as possible.
|
| Andy Platt One more game completed and that wraps things up in Group C - congrats to Alex Fish and Jon Stitcher for qualifying from a tough group.
|
| Anoush Khachik *sigh* I wanna know who i'm playing in knockouts :P |
| Callum Todd Only 3 games left. |
| Anoush Khachik Yeah annoying cause I wanna know who i am playing lol |
| Alex Fish make that two to go! |
| Andy Platt Impressive. Nice one Kieran, will get on the completed standings for Group B in a moment |
| Andy Platt https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByvrSuLzbxrSaEx1YU9Qam4tTFE/edit?usp=sharing
|
| George Ford hey I have the lowest losing margin out of everyone do I get a special prize or something |
| Alex Fish pity? |
| George Ford if it's a pity cake sure |
| Andy Platt A handjob from Nadroj |
| Andy Platt Also, I was wrong about Group F, Thomas has already qualified, I'm stoopid. |
| George Ford A nadjob |
| Andy Platt One game to go!
|
| Sean D *slow hand claps Gerry and Peter* |
| Gerry Tynan I've scheduled that game for 30th March Sean, so we should have it done within the time frame :) |
| Andy Platt Haha. Technically a valid point |
| Gerry Tynan Peter's contacted me from Sri Lanka. We're hoping to play this on Sunday so one of us should sail on into the next round. |
| Andy Platt Round complete. Thanks to Peter for making a special effort to play whilst not even in the country and he is rewarded with a place in the second round.
|
| David Barnard Good way of working out the handicap ratings although I am slightly pissed at that LOL |
| Andy Platt It's a decent measure to stop certain people sandbagging ;) |
 | Ian Volante Feck, at least my opponent's gone up as well! |
| David Barnard Yeah the plan was to play really good people so 13 maxes would lose most games |
| Andy Platt https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByvrSuLzbxrSaFBiT3pPZVY0ekk/edit?usp=sharing |
| Andy Platt Handicaps are maximum 60 for knockout stage now. That should help. |
 | Matthew Tassier Seems a little against the spirit of a handicap competition to bring in a rule at this stage to specifically help the topped rank player. |
| Andy Platt Seems a little against the spirit of a handicap competition that one player is keeping his rating in the 600s even though he's much better than that |
| Matthew Tassier Yes, undeniably that would be too. But your solution is to advantage one or two top players rather than everyone. |
| David Barnard Cue a 1000 point rating rise after the tourney is finished |
| Andy Platt It was pretty tempting to change the formula's quotient to 25 instead but I was generally happy with the balance of results - the only games I had issue with were when a very low rated player played a very high rated player |
| Matthew Tassier Majority of games were won by the higher ranked player, and 11/16 qualifiers were from top 2 ranked in each group, so I think you're right that a general move in favour of higher ranked players isn't needed. |
| Callum Todd Making it so that someone can win by 59 points and then still lose hardly favours them a great deal. |
| Show all comments | |
| Callum Todd And the highest rating thing doesn't favour higher rated players more than lower rated players. |
| Andy Platt It's interesting to debate though. I'll definitely do a second one later in the year, and I'd love to hear suggested formulas from those who are better at maths than I am |
| Matthew Tassier I'm totally in agreement with the higher rating thing, that was definitely a good idea. And Callum, if you don't want large handicaps to overcome then you should really stop playing
|
| Ian Volante Definitely an argument for making the adjustment non-linear. As for a formula, something with an exponential decay going on maybe. I'd have to have a think. |
| Anoush Khachik I'm just playing by the rules of the tourney, if there's an issue, it's with your formula, not with what I'm doing |
Tourney round: Handicap Tournament: Group stage
Notes from the organizer: Handicap Tournament
Tournament structure:
- Classic group stage & knockout.
- Eight groups of three (this could change to four with enough interest), which should be completed by the end of March.
- Top two in each group play a knockout competition which will hopefully finish at the end of May.
Handicap rules:
- Better player must win by a predetermined margin, which is calculated from ratings at the time the game is played.
- The formula for this will be (R(H) - R(L) - 50)/20, where R(H) is the higher rating and R(L) is the lower rating.
- If the difference between ratings is under 50 then there is no handicap.
- Example 1, a player rated 2304 must beat a player rated 1092 by 58 points (the formula gives 58.1 so we round down).
- Example 2, a player rated 1888 must beat a player rated 1440 by 20 points (the formula gives 19.9 so we round up).
Ran from: 5 – 23 February 2014. Format: 15 Rounder. Matches: One-off. Approved.
Signed up: Jon Stitcher, Ian Volante, Tom Cappleman, Innis Carson, Tom Rowell, Matthew Tassier, Jason Turner, Marcus Hares, Jamie French, Johnny Canuck, Gerry Tynan, James Bradley, David Barnard, Kieran Bray, Dylan Taylor, James Rowan, Zarte Siempre, Anoush Khachik, Matthew Brockwell, James Laverty, Peter Fenton, Sean D, James Bailes, Sarah Z, Remi Benoit, Graham Harrison, Harry Whitehouse, Alex Fish, Callum Todd, Nadroj Rekrab, Jamie M, George Ford.
Fixtures: 48. Completed: 48.
Results and fixtures
Key. Green: winner. Red: loser. Grey: tie. (Stripes: provisional, match in progress.)
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